The role of LMI in guidance

28-February-2005

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LMI in guidance is a top priority according to policy makers, but to what extent do practitioners use it?

As a practitioner in a Higher Education context I've been amazed at how much use I've been able to make of the LMI section of this website.  It's helped me in providing a context for reports that consider destinations of graduates in terms of the broader labour market, provided an overview of occupational areas that fall outside my existing knowledge and caseload, and I've even given the website out to clients who are trying to research particular sectors to give them a sense of the existing opportunity structure.  It seems to me this area of the site is an important resource, helping me to develop my professional expertise, build my understanding of the labour market, produce more robustly supported reports as part of my role and assisted me in direct work with individuals!

This is a great resource, but it has made me reflect on the importance of LMI and I'm wondering how other users of this forum view LMI.  Do practitioners have enough time to keep up to date with LMI, how important is it in practice, for example does it fit with the Personal Adviser role within connexions or is it being pushed out by other priorities.  I'm not sure if individual practitioners have all that much say in deciding how much time to spend on this aspect of their work.  Any comments?


Lucy Marris; 28-February-2005 14:52:28; forum (10) help

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1 The usefulness of LMI

It is good to know that pracitioners are finding the LMI Future Trends section useful in guidance practice.

 The development of both the structure and content of the LMU Future Trends was produced after several consultations with guidance practitioners, trainers, managers, researchers and policy makers. These consultations revealed that there was a real need for labour market information particularly online, accessible LMI distilled from several sources of information covering everything from information with an equal opportunities dimension, regional data, qualification level of the workforce and future employment opportunities in the sector.  In producing the LMI we have tried to write sector information that is both comprehensive, easy to ready and useful whilst meeting the needs of practitioners. I know several researchers that have used LMI Future Trends to inform the project work they are doing.

Sally-Anne Barnes, 28-February-2005 16:20:44 forum / discussion

2 the elusive labour market

I am really pleased to read what Lucy has written about Labour Market Information (LMI) and its use by career guidance practitioners with clients. In two public forums in the last few months,I have heard careers type people assert that LMI is no longer a significant part of initial professional training, and no part of career guidance practice. Is that really so? It seems there is little evidence to prove this one way or the other, so I am genuinely interested in gauging what is happening in contemporary practice: What is your current experience of LMI?
As someone who teaches Labour Market Studies on the Post grad qualification in career guidance (at University of East London) I have been startled to hear that Labour Market Information and/or Labour Market Intelligence is no longer a part of careers training - because it is no longer part of career practice. I teach Labour Market Studies with a colleague from within the Centre for Training in Career Guidance and another colleague who works in the field. Last month (January 2005) we ran a focus group with our second year part time students to find out what they really thought of LMI as a topic within their Post grad diploma in career guidance; nearly all had been nervous of tackling LMI - and found it quite a challenge, but really enjoyed it. What seemed to spur them on was their understanding that turning Labour Market Information into Labour Market Intelligence was worthwhile in terms of what they could then pass on to their clients. As motivation, this worked equally well with those students who work with clients already as with those who hope to secure employment in career guidance on (successful) completion of the course. We give our students: the economic background; introduce them to sources of LMI (including this forum which has proved a very rich seam of information and intelligence); work with them to make sense of the information they access (identfying trends, putting data into local/regional/national context) and then we assess what they have done. This used to be an essay, but it is now to produce a labour market report for their peers in the community of practice: an article of the kind they would find in a professional journal - or on this site! How do you make sense of information at local/regional/national level both for your own use and, if you are a career guidance practitioner, for your clients to make use of? Or don't you bother? Is labour market intelligence integral to practice: or a luxury we can't afford?
Rachel Mulvey, 28-February-2005 16:25:25 forum / discussion

3 LMI in guidance - what are the issues?

Even if some evidence exists (where is it?) to suggest that LMI is no longer a central feature of the guidance process, the reasons are complex and need teasing out. Is it training? Lack of practitioner interest? Workplace pressures and priorities exerted by employers on practitioners? Difficulties accessing reliable and comprehensive LMI? Other reasons? A combination?

I've also heard people at various events and in various forums express concern about the (supposed) diminished profile of LMI in the vocational guidance process.  Longitudinal case study research we're undertaking here at Warwick has revealed that of the 50 practitioners participating in the research who were operating across varied professional contexts,  49 used some type of LMI. However, this research does not claim to be representative of all guidance practitioners.  So - why is concern being voiced more generally and do we have the evidence to suggest that LMI is not being used in the guidance process?

It's clear from Rachel's contribution that LMI is still being taught in initial training, but what of the profile its given in work-based routes to qualification?  And to what extent do delivery contexts support (even require) that practitioners develop and up-date their LMI knowledge?  I've often heard practitioners say that there is no longer a requirement placed on them to undertake a minimum number of employer visits and or job studies (as used to be the case). And even in contexts where this sort of contact is not necessarily ruled out, the pressures placed on practitioners to undertake client contact work makes routine visits to employing organisations virtually impossible.

And then, of course, there's the problem of availability of LMI.  In an earlier research project into LMI in guidance in which I was involved, practitioners explained how - even though all the LMI they could ever require was 'out there somewhere' - they lacked the time to research and retrieve this information from various sources and interpret it for their clients.  These difficulties have informed the LMI Future Trends sectionof this website, as Sally-Anne indicates.

Recently, I've been asked to provide an input for a national IAG conference on using LMI in guidance - so it has clearly been identifed as a need by the conference organisers.

Could it be the case that, with the re-focusing agenda taking priority over the past few years, practitioners have had other priorities to deal with?  And maybe we're seeing a re-evaluation of this approach with a new emphasis now placed on LMI in guidance?

 

jenny bimrose, 01-March-2005 12:22:16 forum / discussion
1 replies. Latest reply: 16-May-2005 15:06 by marcusoffer; LMI in guidance: what are the issues?

4 LMI

I am a full-time QCG student currently on placement at a university careers service. I am currently researching engineering and opportunities for women to form part of a labour market journal article. I have spoken to lots of colleagues about their views on labour market information.
I have enjoyed the sessions I have had during my course on the labour market. It seems key to my training that I have an overview or understanding of labour market issues and that I know how to find out about labour market information. This I feel is as important as my skills base. During my connexions placement many advisers were concerned that they had no time to keep abreast with labour market information; they still felt it was important. My own view is that the raw data is of little use to our clients and that my skill is in interpreting the labour market to clients if the need arises. Talking to my colleagues on placement here, they believe it to be key in informing academics on employability of their courses and advising on employment outcomes for potential new courses. With the proliferation of courses (such as Media!) that have questionable employment prospects I rest my case. I was surprised to hear from one of our LMI speakers that many QCG courses are not interested in LMI. I am pleased I did not apply to do my QCG at these establishments.
Anthony Fitzgerald, 03-March-2005 13:55:04 forum / discussion
1 replies. Latest reply:

5 LMI in Guidance

I would like to echo the comments on the above and suggest that LMI is alive and well on the QCG
Here at the University of Paisley we have a module in Labour Market Studies which incorporates the QCG students' research project. Here they focus on an aspect of the labour market and undertake research into trends in that particular industry eg the shortage of young people entering training in the bakery industry, is the guidance profession representative of the community it serves or gender discrimination in construction. They are expected to undertake visits to the industry, conduct structured interviews with staff and make full use of web-based resources (thatkfully we now have the NGRF and the Scottish LMI unit at www.futureskillsscotland.org.uk). Good use of up to date LMI by the experienced careers practitioner is what surely distinguishes us from those other 'experts': the person in the street or the bloke in the pub!! Graham Allan University of Paisley
Graham Allan, 03-March-2005 14:49:43 forum / discussion

6 LMI in the PGD/QCG

The students on the PGD course at Strathclyde University work with LMI as part of the Employment and Training module.
 The use of LMI within the taught element focuses on issues of LMI that relate to economic development, largely within the Scottish context. Also as part of this module the students complete an assignment which like Paisley requires them to investigate a particular sector. This requires them to visit three employers, a college or training provider and to carry out a job study of a sector specific occupation. It would be fair to say that teaching in this area has now been made easier by systematically collated information that is available through Future Skills Scotland and now through the NGRF! How much use practitioners make of the information is available to them is hard to estimate. It appears much depends on the interest of the individual practitioner rather than the demands of the organisation.
Sue Hickman, 04-March-2005 15:29:14 forum / discussion

7 LMI within RNIB guidance

Muriel Peach, career guidance practitioner, works for the RNIB. She has given me permission to paste her contribution to the LMI debate - which derives from her work with vision impaired clients.
From: Muriel Peach [mailto:MPeach@rnib-redhill.ac.uk] Thanks for including me in on the debate. I still think LMI is very important and would be alarmed if people did not take account of the variety of statistics and surveys that are out there to inform our plans for training and workforce development. I think everyone should understand how they fit into the rich pattern of working life and how skills shortages can be influenced by a variety of factors - geographical, political as well as economic. The world of finding jobs for people with sight difficulties does not get any easier
Rachel Mulvey, 11-March-2005 17:55:14 forum / discussion

8 LMI in work based training

As someone who is currently researching Guidance Practitoner's use of information as part of a Masters in careers Education and Guidance at The University of East london I found everyones comments very interesting, however Jenny Bimrose's comment about the position of LMI in work based training routes was particularly interesting to me as I have been very shocked by what I have found out about it.

I have completed both the QCG and the NVQ 4 in Advice and Guidance and although I wasn't required to do it due to my previous study, other people working for the same company who were undertaking the NVQ as their sole route of training were required to undertake an occupational study and 25 employer visits.

   The company I work for has now changed from being an independent "Careers Company" contracted to deliver the Connexions service, to a direct delivery Connexions service. Their are currently around 100 people undertaking the NVQ, including "Intensive" Personal Advisers and with all the pressure to get everyone through standards have changed with the number of visits required slashed and the occupational study changing to either an occupational or agency study. One of the assessors I have spoken to told me she has seen new Advisers starting work in schools with no idea how to access information about the labour market.

Due to the way NVQ's are structured they really are only as good as the company providing the training and so it is perfectly possible to complete the NVQ with no knowledge of how to access labour market Information.

Josie weatherly, 13-March-2005 21:32:39 forum / discussion

9 Using LMI in guidance

Student projects completed as part of their QCG can be a useful, up-to-date source of LMI for practitioners.
At the University of Paisley we ask our Pg Diploma in Careers Guidance students to complete abstracts of their LMI research projects and arrangements are being put in place to have these lodged in the Careers Scotland web site to allow careers advisers to see at a glance what thet have been researching. Full projects may also be logged but in the meantime copies can be borrowed by contacting course tutors. Below are a couple of abstracts (anonymised) as examples of what our students have been up to. THE UNDERREPRESENTATION OF BLACK AND ETHNIC MINORITIES IN CAREERS GUIDANCE ABSTRACT In 21st century Britain the make-up of professions should generally reflect the community it serves, whether in terms of male, female, disability or race. The career guidance profession especially should consider this, with the projected large increase in refugees and asylum seekers over the next few years. This report clearly shows however a massive under-representation of career guidance practitioners from the black and minority ethnic community. This report examines why this is happening and considers some of the possible causes for this and looks at the medium to long-term implications for the profession and examines what action is being taken to address the issue. All the relevant major players were contacted during the production of the report including Careers Scotland, the CRE, institutions offering the QCG, the institute of Career Guidance and community groups representing the minority ethnic community. The research indicates that, although under-representation exists, there is wholesale agreement that the issue can be tackled and suggestions and recommendations are made on how best to address the issue. The report makes comment on some of the major issues relating to the problem of under-representation including the use of statistics and future trends. THE SHORTAGE OF YOUNG PEOPLE ENTERING THE BAKERY INDUSTRY ABSTRACT This report focuses on the ‘Bakery Industry’ and in particular the shortage of young people entering the industry as Apprentice Bakers. These issues are historical but also relevant for the future and are affected by the involvement of a whole variety of organisations as well as social and economic factors. The geographical area I based my research on is Glasgow bordering into South Lanarkshire. There are many factors affecting recruitment within the industry; falling birth rates, business needs changing from manufacturing to more sales orientated, image, qualifications and training (both entering and within the industry), range of issues relating to the recruitment of young people, attitude of the industry itself as well as lack of understanding of the issues within the industry and of teachers, careers advisers, parents etc. The ‘Bakery Industry’ has faced many changes and is having to adapt to accommodate these changes. This report highlights the current and future plans for the industry and updates previous Labour Market Information. I hope this report will be of use to those in the industry and practitioners within Careers Scotland to bring to their attention the opportunities within the bakery industry. Graham Allan Course Tutor University of Paisley
Graham Allan, 17-March-2005 14:19:24 forum / discussion

10 Ann Mason

I am project managing an SSC IAG project that feeds directly into the government's review of IAG for adults as proposed in the Skills Strategy White Paper. I couldn't agree more!

I work for Skillset, the Sector Skills Council for the audio-visual industries.  Skillset is also a Pathfinder SSC and is one of the participating SSCs in the project.  We have run numerous workshops for careers advisors (some of you will know us!) and we work closely with IER to help advisors navigate LMI and interpret it to enhance the service they offer to clients.  Evaluation from all (sector specific) workshops has shown that advisors are really keen to know more and to know about the sources of LMI.  So through IER, all SSCs in the project are developing the sectoral LMI on this website - Pathfinder LMI should be up there soon, up-to-date and comprehensive!!

Through this project we are also building on our previous workshop model and rolling it out with the three other Pathfinders through a series of regional workshops to be held from April to September.  This is a model that SSCs across the Skills for Business Network will be able to use and develop for their own sectors.  Government has also recognised the importance of LMI within the planned revisions to the IAG infrastructure for adults.  Again we have worked with IER to research sources of LMI - and highlight its limitations - and the IAG Review Group (overseeing this part of the Skills Strategy reforms) will be looking at the whole area of LMI in the coming months.   Any feedback you would like to provide will be warmly welcomed as we will be refining the workshop delivery as we go along.  Reply here or contact me on annm@skillset.org.  Would love to hear from you.

Regards

Ann Mason, 08-March-2006 17:24:25 forum / discussion

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